Season 3: Episode 1- Foundations of Faith

What the Bible actually says

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to Gracefully Unfiltered, where we talk real life, real faith, and real women. Honest conversations, biblical truth with zero filter. Let's get unfiltered gracefully.

SPEAKER_03 0:12

Welcome back to Gracefully Unfiltered. Today we're starting with something really foundational. If we're going to talk about Christianity, faith, salvation, the church, any of it, there's one question that has to come first. How do we actually know what is true? Because there are a lot of opinions about Christianity. There are a lot of traditions. But if we're serious about following God, the only place authority can come from is scripture itself. I'm Kelly and I'm here with Elisa and Megan today. Alyssa had to miss tonight, but we miss you, Alyssa.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

Yes, miss you. I think that something the Bible actually addresses directly is that in 2 Timothy 3.16, it actually says that all scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness. So the Bible's not just like inspirational writing. It's definitely God kind of revealing that truth to humanity. But if that's the case, then the standard can't be our feelings. It can't be based on church tradition or anything like that. It has to come from what scripture actually says, which is something I truly admire about specifically like the church that we do attend because it is always very biblically based.

SPEAKER_02 1:32

What was it that was said yes last night that you and I looked at each other involving the what did he say?

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Oh yeah, it was about the interpretation. Yeah. So remember we did that whole series. It was a very good series. It was a very good series. We did an entire series, and it was with multiple different teachers, multiple different, multiple teachers, and basically it all came down to one concept though of the only interpretation is the Bible. The Bible is the interpretation for Christ, for God. Like there is just one interpretation, right? But then sometimes I hear contradicting statements. So like last night we heard that it can be multiple interpretations that are based on one truth, but can be interpreted differently. And that's where it gets confusing because it's like, okay, well, then you have people that you're brothers and sisters in Christ, and you all have different interpretations, even though there's only one interpretation.

SPEAKER_02 2:34

I think the word interpretation is where things get confusing, I think. Because take I'm using as an example, take your situation in a sense. Certain scriptures hit you differently. Oh yeah. In certain aspects versus what it hits you at that moment. So it may not necessarily be interpretation, it's just something of almost like your eyes opening of that's what that's stating.

SPEAKER_03 3:01

Right. I think there's non-interpretation, one true interpretation, but I think our level of understanding may not match the interpretation yet. It's almost like a growth, like your spiritual growth of things.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

But it can't be based on feeling. So like what you're saying, it hits different, like it's not based on feeling. Like how we read scripture shouldn't be based on just feelings, it should be biblically based.

SPEAKER_02 3:23

Yes. Go ahead. But like, once again, using Kelly, for what she's been reading and looking at, when she had read it, say three years ago, it may not have fully graped it. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:39

So it's almost like not it's like God opens your eyes to a different or deeper understanding of maybe a specific scripture where you may just be on the surface level of it at this point in your walk. But then the more you read it, the more you live it, the more you discuss it, your understanding deepens. And so I don't think that interpretation would be a correct word for that. Is that kind of what you're getting at? Yeah, so like I think interpretation is the word that a lot of people get.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Right, but but under people using that word in a teaching position, that's where it gets a little hairy for me, right? Yeah. You utilize that word too loosely in some aspects, or you're utilizing it in the correct way, but now we have an understanding of it being the loose way that was presented. And I know, like, we're not supposed to just take man's word for anything because the Bible is our base. So what I read is that this is right, this is wrong, or whatever the case is. But also, if there's one true interpretation, like somebody might get something completely else, like completely different out of that than I do. So if that's the case, what's the true interpretation?

SPEAKER_03 4:54

I think we have to say the Bible at face value, though, too, that it says what it says. Well, we are not to add or take away from it. And I think when we start saying, Well, there's more interpretations or there's more meanings behind this or that. No, I mean, it is what it is. How you understand it, that's on you. That's between you and God. But the interpretation, the way that it's presented to us, the black and white meaning of it is what it is. There's no other interpretation.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Sermons, you know, some people one day it hits them differently versus the person sitting next to them because that's something that they're dealing with.

SPEAKER_03 5:35

Right.

SPEAKER_02 5:35

As something that's fresh in their life. Yeah, I'm just saying, like, I think the word interpretation is kind of one of those loosely used terms, yes, and people misconception misconception of it. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

And I think sometimes it's just used wrong. But I I think my concern in that too is like not necessarily false teaching. I don't think it was a false teaching. No, not at all. But what I'm saying is like for a new Christian or someone who's just starting to really focus on the doctrine and learning to really study, they hear, okay, there's only one true interpretation, but then they see all of these people in the same church that have different takes on different passages. How confusing to someone who's like, okay, you just told me there's one interpretation, but now you're also telling me that you don't agree with my brother next door.

unknown 6:25

Right.

SPEAKER_02 6:26

Well, I mean, that was you know, that was something you and I had a conversation about. Of I don't think it's right in a sense that someone's if someone tells me, hey, I read this passage, I read this chapter, this is what I got out of it. I don't think it's necessarily right to tell them that they're wrong, but look more into of where they got that from, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 6:53

Maybe asking them to explain to you or to help you understand how they came to that conclusion. Yes, you know, okay. Because none of us like that. Because at that point, you're wrong. Is it necessary?

SPEAKER_02 7:04

I mean, what you got from it, I may have been completely wrong in what I my understanding of it was, and you may be right in that sense, right? But being able to actually look in the scripture, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:16

Well, that's why the scripture warns us about relying on our human wisdom. You know, that's why we're supposed to study together and to study separately, is to help us all to be assured in what we know and what we don't know. What is that verse in Proverbs? Uh is it Proverbs Proverbs 14, 12? There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

Yes, yes. That's a big statement there. That really is, though. Sometimes what feels right or sounds kind of good just isn't really aligned with truth, especially when you look at it biblically. Oh, like today's culture, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:53

All the way around today's culture, yes.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

Uh, but that's why Christians throughout the New Testament were also encouraged to test everything against the word of God, which is something that we should be utilizing today, which is honestly one of the biggest doctrinal things that I do agree with that specifically Church of Christ does, is that their whole goal in mind is to be New Testament church. Right. We follow the Bible, we don't add or take away, so when it's silent, we don't say, well, this could fill the gap. We let it be what it is.

SPEAKER_03 8:27

Like, we don't use instrumental music. Most people know that the churches of Christ do not use instrumental music. However, my oldest son, who is a music-loving kid, we have these conversations often, like mom no, but David used the symbols, they danced, they had, you know, the tambourines, all the things. Then we have to go from Old Testament to New Testament, and what's the example set after Jesus came?

SPEAKER_01 8:55

That's the example we're going by. And that's to say, too, like the reason that like a Church of Christ specifically doesn't use musical instruments is just because they don't mention the musical instruments in the New Testament, and that's where the whole idea of not adding or taking away, if it's silent, you don't add something to fill in the gap. So I do understand like that concept, and I don't disagree necessarily with that doctrine. But do I also think that somebody's going to hell for a musical instrument? No, that's not what I'm saying. But I like as far as a worship service, I'm completely like understanding of not having a musical instrument in the worship service. Right. But also I play the violin and I sing, and I will a hundred percent play a Christian song on my violin, or I will sing Christian music that has musical instruments in it all day long. Like if that's how I feel like praising with my own time, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

SPEAKER_02 9:52

But also, like to with that, what you just said is musical instruments in a worship service.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

Right, in assembled gathering, which is what they do specify like throughout the New Testament. It talks about assembled gatherings versus non-assembled gatherings. And those are important details that I think a lot of people today don't take into consideration because they're just cherry-picking what they want from scripture rather than reading the entire context and understanding like what adds value to where we're at and what we're looking at.

SPEAKER_03 10:23

But this is also, I think, we're gonna get way deeper than just surface level, probably with this comment, but where conviction comes in, if you are convicted, be based on your understanding of everything that you're reading, that instrumental music should not be used with any type of worship, whether that's personal worship or congregational worship, then you have to not use it. Now, if your conviction is like you were saying, you have to be convicted in that what I'm doing personally with worship to God is okay, but and in a public or community congregational setting, this is okay. Um, whatever it is, you have to be convicted in it.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

You can't just well, and that's like I know personally, I am truly convicted that God did not give me a gift to sing and a gift to play the instrument that I play. I have played that since I was three years old. He would not have allowed me to have that ability and not be able to utilize it to glorify him. Like, that is literally, I am taking the things that I cherish, that I value, that I have been gifted and talented by God with, why would I not want to praise him with it? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 11:44

That makes sense. I mean, it's a valid statement.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

But I get what you're saying, like the conviction, like if you're convicted to not utilize a musical instrument for any type of worship, yeah, like to each their own on that. But all that to say that I do agree that in an assembled gathering, it doesn't say to use instruments, therefore we don't. Right.

SPEAKER_03 12:03

And this is just an example of like the cultural differences, I think, too. Because there are some United Churches of Christ, for example, yes, or other non-denominational and even denominational one uh congregations that use full-blown bands, it's not just a piano anymore or just an organ to accompany, it's a full-on production concert. Where's the line crossed there? I mean, where does that still meet biblical truth? And where is that meeting this is what culture says is okay. You know, like where's that line? Where do you draw the line?

SPEAKER_01 12:41

And I think that's kind of well, and then okay, so like in Eric. No, I get that. And in Acts, it talks about the, you know, like they were saying, the nobles, because they examine the scriptures daily to see if they were being taught was true. That is something we should be doing, anyways. Like if you are, like you said, feeling convicted, then you should definitely go to scripture to see why you're feeling that way. You can't just accept that conviction blindly because you need to check it against the scripture.

SPEAKER_03 13:09

That's because, like, we were even talking about this, I think, that was part of one of our lessons last night or this morning about conviction, and it means that you change. Like there's gonna be change with conviction. Yes, it's not just oh, I'm convicted of this, so this is how it's gonna be.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

No, there's some kind of a change that goes along with that. Like if you are convicted to do something a certain way, that means you stop doing the way you were doing before.

SPEAKER_03 13:34

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

So, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:37

So if you were in a take, for example, again, just saying you think that your talents and the things that God gave you musically to use, that you can use that in your private worship or with your kids at home to worship. But say uh you reread a verse and you thought, man, maybe I wasn't, maybe that is a little off. Right. So you would have to change. If you had that conviction, you would have to change. Be like, you know what? I don't want to use that even at home in my own personal worship. Yeah. But you know, there has to be a there would have to be a change if that was your conviction. If it was, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

And that's what I think a lot of people also don't see the side of the silence in the Bible, like when things are not spoken and how we don't add to the gap of silence, right? I would look at that more as um error on the side of caution because it is not worth my eternal life with Jesus in heaven to add in something that is so insignificant, earth side. Like, my goal is eternity. And I think a lot of people just don't even think about eternity the way that it really needs to be thought of. Like, can you imagine you have eternity? You could literally count every speckle of sand in the entire world.

SPEAKER_03 15:01

You can't fathom that. You can't mind space.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

You would be able to do all like you would have the time because eternity is literally forever. And like we're so blinded by our maybe 85 to 100 years here on earth, if we're lucky, right? And we're like, oh, that's all that matters right now, when there's so much more, and so much more to like have a goal to set forth, you know? It's just oh yeah, crazy.

SPEAKER_03 15:32

Like, I take just this last year has seemed like an eternity for me. It's not been an eternity, hadn't even quite been a whole year. How everyone felt that way. It feels like I've aged 20, 30 years here, but it really is just a little speck in the whole outlook of even my earthly life and my eternal life. I mean, it is just a little bitty speck, but it has kept me in such turmoil, yeah, you know, but that that's what I mean. Like to in our life, every major traumatic event or catastrophe or exciting event seems like forever thing, it's a big deal.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

Yeah, and it's really we cannot imagine, it really isn't. No, it's not we're human, we can't.

SPEAKER_03 16:24

Because we can imagine past tomorrow except a week from now, you know, or we do and we wish it away.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

We do, you know, like we're like, oh, well, there's always tomorrow, like, bro. Yeah, no, there's not. There may not be.

SPEAKER_02 16:37

No, there's not.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

I don't know. But it's important that we don't interpret the Bible through the culture that we're living in as well, because we interpret culture through the Bible, and sometimes that means letting scripture challenge our assumptions that we've grown up with. And I know that's hard for a Christian who has been raised in a church going home. Like, we've grown up with all of these ideals, and then we never learned it for ourselves. Exactly. Like, you have to dig in, you've got to learn the things. Like, thankfully, not I was forced. Thankfully, though, I had great teachers in my life that encouraged me to read things and find the truth for my own, leading me to where I am today. And then I got to go to Harding, same situation. I was encouraged to find my way with the Bible as the truth, you know.

SPEAKER_02 17:32

You know what's kind of a neat but also in a sad way? You see the kids that raise in the church and through the family and all that stuff, but then you see somebody that has come become a Christian later on in life after doing so. Sometimes they're more knowledgeable than someone that has Christian.

SPEAKER_01 17:55

Because they dug their heels in and learned everything they absolutely could. Yes. There was a church in Pennsylvania that we went to for quite a while whenever we were up there for work.

SPEAKER_03 18:06

And um two different times, like for a couple months at a time, we were up there. And one thing that really caught me was that people drove sometimes an hour from other states to to come to church there. And almost everybody that was there was converted from a denomination to the in this particular case, the church of Christ. So they were converted from other denominations and or from denominations, and they're it was just so interesting to listen to them because in the growing up in the Bible Belt, most of the people I go to church with or have gone to church with are generational members. And the perspective's a little different, the the desire is a little different, the you know, the need is a little different, and it was like such an eye-opener. I mean, my boys were little, they still went to Sunday school and stuff, so they don't remember it as much, but it was an eye-opener for me when we came back. I was like, man, you know, I'm ready to I'm on fire now, you know. I got a different perspective, and these people are knowledgeable and they're driving hours to be able to be here to worship with other people, you know, and it's a big deal because they wanted the truth, they wanted a church with the truth, and they once they started studying with somebody, they realized that the way they were worshiping was not true but biblical worship, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:34

Well, that's why it's so important though for people that are or are not raised in the church, though, as adults, right? It's so important for us to have teachers though that make us want to learn. To have teachers that, like, I am hungry for the words you are speaking, I am hungry to hear the scriptures you're referencing, give me more. Because if you don't have that, like you said, like you need that fire lit under you every now and then. And it's not that the fire should go out, it's that we're human, so it does.

SPEAKER_03 20:04

Like life gets in the way, it makes us tired, it makes us emotionally, spiritually, physically, all the things tired. And we get in rut. I said not Wednesday nights. We get in ruts. We do. I'm gonna comment about that in a minute. Uh-oh. Not for the video, but just possibly. Um, and we do, and we get because we're so used to having so much of what we want, how we want it. When we want it, when we get in those ruts, we feel sorry for ourselves. And then we get the pity party starts, and then the depression starts, and then all the things start, and we just drop out. You know what that is, though? Spiritual warfare.

SPEAKER_02 20:44

It's spiritual warfare. It's the end, it'll saying, listen, I got you right, which is funny, and I think I've mentioned this to Alisa because I've read two of those books involving that, and there's a couple more that I'm gonna read. Just about every class, like the ladies' Bible study and different things, something always pops in my head and it's like, that's what that is. It's all connected to that.

SPEAKER_01 21:09

It's all connected. I know, it was just funny. It sounded like something on the TV show. It's all we're connected. I mean, it's kind of like your butt is. No, you're right.

SPEAKER_02 21:20

I got you.

unknown 21:21

I know.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

My mom said she enjoys whenever she's able to talk to a non-believer and she gets to ask them about like Christ. And if they say, you know, I haven't been baptized, she said she's always like, exciting. Like planting seeds, bro. Oh, it's so sweet. I do like the point here, like where one of the biggest mistakes that people make when reading the Bible is just pulling the individual verses. So, like we were talking about cherry picking and taking things out of context. Like, you're gonna hear someone quote one line of scripture and then build an entire belief system around it. Which is what's happening. Which happens every day.

SPEAKER_02 22:04

Oh and that is one of the biggest divide, I think, in our world. I know. That's why there's so many changes and everything.

SPEAKER_03 22:11

I mean, somebody didn't like this, so hey, we're gonna start our own over here because we wanna do it this way.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

Right. Like, no, it needs to be a biblically based foundation for it to make sense. And you building up whatever, like the Bible wasn't written as isolated verses, it was written with letters and history and teachings that were all supposed to be put into one big context. Like there's a reason the Bible is what it is, and the beginning matters at the end, and the end matters to the beginning, and it cross-references all throughout, like all the way. Oh my goodness, that is yes. So then you want to take one verse and be like, well, this verse says, Love thy neighbor, and then you want to forget everything else in the Bible. Like, yes, loving your neighbor is a hundred percent an important thing to do, but also I'm not gonna condone all the sin.

SPEAKER_02 23:05

I'm gonna love them, but I'm gonna condone acceptance constantly all the time. I can love you while you're still on the other side of the yeah, I love you as a neighbor.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

Like my neighbors have I have a fence around my heart, bro.

SPEAKER_03 23:19

I still love somebody right now, but I also would not mind to, you know, teach a little lesson, you know. It doesn't by loving them doesn't mean I'm gonna stay and condone what they're doing. It means I'm gonna continue to pray for them and it means I'm going to continue to hope the best for them.

SPEAKER_02 23:41

It doesn't matter but it's because you're doing that not for them, you're doing that for yourself.

SPEAKER_03 23:46

Oh, I think it's both. It's both.

SPEAKER_02 23:48

Well, because like if you if you hate that hate is gonna build up in Egypt. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:56

But it definitely is both yes, yeah. Because if you didn't love them, you wouldn't want to pray for them. That's you know, like it's not the same love anymore.

SPEAKER_03 24:06

No as that relationship, but it's still biblical love. Yes, it is loving people and wanting them to be in heaven with you one day.

SPEAKER_01 24:16

Yes, yeah, that's what the Bible doesn't contradict itself, so the message itself will remain consistent when it's read in the proper context, which is if you take it out of context, it will be misconstrued, and then it will lead as a false teaching. Everyone, all these little sheep that are not using the Bible as a reference and just listening to the words of a man, lead them astray, and that's an antichrist salvation topic right there.

SPEAKER_03 24:48

Yes, it is. Yeah, there's minty, many, many, not minty, they're not menti. Maybe they have great minty breath. I don't know. Maybe probably many antichrists. There's not just one, and I think people forget that too, that they they're looking for this one big person, yeah, no, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

And and that's not the case.

SPEAKER_03 25:14

What?

SPEAKER_01 25:14

Well, it's a good point though, because okay, the Bible was written by about 40 different writers across 1500 years, but the message is unified. So from Genesis to Revelation, the story is about God creating mankind, man falling into sins, we've got the fall of man, and then God providing that redemption through Christ. And that's literally the table line, and it's all prophesied, it is all cross-referenced, it's all contextual, like it all what did you say? That would work now, it's all connected.

SPEAKER_03 25:48

There's no way that would work now. No, I mean, even it just wouldn't.

SPEAKER_02 25:53

It was too much God's design, God's plan, God's hand to say this is how it's also like a fun thing to do in a Bible study when it's like, oh, this scripture is almost the exact same thing written here. Yes, and it's like 15 books back that way, which is ends up being, you know, hundreds of years, yeah, and it's the exact same thing.

SPEAKER_03 26:12

I have a chronological Bible, and I think if you do not have one, everybody should have one because reading it brings to like so many other things that we miss, I think, and just reading our Bibles the way they're set up, right? The way most of us have. Because it puts the books together and it puts the timelines together, so you're not jumping from, you know, I don't know, where it gets in all the first Kings, Second Kings, all these different ones. You have all of those stories together. You have the psalms that David was writing put into some of the other books, broken up because this is when he was doing this, this is what was going on, and this is when he wrote that psalm or recited that song, which is so cool though, because again, the different authors, but they still make one unified story.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

So the story makes sense, even if you pick and pull and move everything around, like you can't change the Bible.

SPEAKER_03 27:10

Like you can't, and it'll put the same stories from Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John together, yeah. Because it's each of their perspective of what they're seeing, but it's still the same story, you know. But you do get a few little different tidbits from them because one of them is saying something that the other one's not seeing immediately. Right. But it's still the same meaning, it's still the same purpose, and it's still the same story, it's still the same life event.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

Yes, and then you've got like I can't remember the exact reference, so I'm and I'm gonna slaughter it. So um, but historically, right? Like, there's a couple of people that historically only have like two different references or two different like manuscripts that they can even historically go back and prove their existence, but then you've got the Bible with the 40 different authors, the over 400 something like people that physically saw and told the story of, and there is so many different books out there that cross-reference and like correlate into the biblical context, and people are like, Yeah, that's not real. Like, that is so frustrating. I'm like, it is literally the most proven book out there, and you want to be like, Yeah, it's not real, it's a fairy tale.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

Like, okay. I don't understand it. Oh man, it's crazy. Megan, not wanting to say that you were doing well, redemption is definitely the center of the entire Bible.

SPEAKER_01 28:44

Like Genesis to Revelation, we talked about like fall of man and then God providing that redemption. John 3 16 says, For God so loved the world that he gave his only son, and whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. But even that verse has to have context because belief in the Bible is not just an intellectual agreement, it's a response of obedience and surrender to God. Like even a big verse like that, we can't take out of context. No, but so many people do, and it's just a quote now, you know.

SPEAKER_03 29:18

Well, it's just like a thing, they put it on, you see it all over like the NFL and stuff like that, and they might not truly realize they believe there's a God, yes, they just don't believe in the whole thing, the whole God, the wholeness of God, yes, and that's where it becomes a problem because you don't just believe to be redeemed either, right? That whole redemption process is more than just one step or one action because there are so many scriptures that go together that tell you how to be saved, to be redeemed, to follow Helm.

SPEAKER_01 30:01

Well, I think this is a good stopping point for this episode. So thank you for joining us on Gracie Unfiltered. We'll see you next time. Bye, guys.